Rebuttal Reason 1- Evolution Takes Faith

We’ve been discussing my perceived top 5 reasons why you do not believe in God, and I’m taking my time to reply in segments. I’m dedicating these to our atheist and agnostic friends who are seeking truth. This is my number 1 reason, and you can find a fraction of my response below.

1. You were taught since you were in elementary school that evolution is true. They have all been telling you about the millions of kajillions of years ago, and you’ve gotten the memo. You’ve been told that you’re ancesters were primates, and your ancient relatives are just animals. You’ve read the latest Dawkins’ masterpiece of literature, and are well aware that you are a cosmic accident, and have zero purpose. Then why do you have a deep sense that there is more to you than that?

Rebuttal:
It’s tough, even unreal, to think that something you’ve been taught your entire life as fact might be completely false. The theory of evolution, coupled with atheism, is really just another world-view of faith. Faith that the world has gotten to it’s marvelous grown-up stature without the intervention of an intelligent designer. And if there was a designer, as some contemporary scientists will claim, life and people were “seeded here” by “alien life forms.” No, that was not a draft from the latest sci-fy novel. That is intellectual prowess at its finest, apparently.
Any theory today has room on the table unless it questions our beginning, and any scientist can earn a chair around that table unless they believe in intelligent design.
Now this is really interesting to me, and here’s why. Science prides itself on asking the hard questions. What…when, where, how, and why. We hypothesize, we test, we ask more questions, and test again and again. In science you don’t throw out anything, unless it’s been proven over and over, or disproven by indisputable proof. Darwin’s Origin of the Species was not, nor is it still, indisputable proof. Even Charles Darwin himself said his own theory was “grievously hypothetical.”

In talking with numerous atheists and agnostics, I’m convinced that ‘indisputable truth’ has less to do with logic and science, and has more to do with an emotional response. Some would respond with a loud and robust “No!” when asked, “If I could prove Christianity to be true, would you become a Christian?” This response shows that this is not just an intellectual issue, but it’s an issue of the heart. Ask yourself this question. What reason do I have in wanting God to be an illusion? Why do you want someone to prove God cannot exist? If you’re a brave soul, put your answer to this question down in our comment box. I’m curious to hear the answers.

Isn’t it interesting that just because someone has a sharp mind, and has earned tenure at a prestigious university, that whatever we hear come out of their mouth we perceive as fact, when in reality there is only that person’s anti-religious views, and philosophical grumblings?
I promise to walk through specifics in upcoming posts.

Science is still supposed to be asking the hard questions. ‘Where did we come from? Why are we here? What are we supposed to be doing? What happens to us when we die? No one has proven God unreal, so if you’re being honest with yourself, there should be questions that start with, If God exists….what am I personally doing here? If God is real…where am I going when I die, and is there more than one choice?

If you ask me, God, in His own best seller, supplies more logical explanations and answers to the big questions than any other theory or sharp-minded professor around. Oh the stories and lessons in the Bible are extraordinary, I give you that, but after all, we’re talking about God.

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23 Comments Add yours

  1. Tim Shey says:

    Just thought you would like to read this:

    “Why do Evolutionists Believe in the Religion of Evolution?”
    http://hitchhikeamerica.wordpress.com/2013/12/07/why-do-evolutionists-believe-in-the-religion-of-evolution/

  2. Olivia says:

    “What happens to us when we die? ” What happens to us before we are born? What was life like before birth? It’s a so-called symmetry-argument. Do you think life before birth will differ from life after death? If so, how do you explain that dissonance? AND yes, it is a dissonance to believe in life after death, but not before birth.

    1. Tidbitter says:

      Olivia, I see the point you are making but I don’t see how or why we should be bound to those parameters. Why must there be life before life for there to be life after death? I believe that we come into being at conception, when we become an individual and God begins to knit us together in the womb, this is when our soul/spirit comes into existence. After our physical body dies our spirit will have an eternity either with or without God. Thanks for stopping by.

  3. Mags says:

    No one here is angry or bullying you. What they are, is tired of the same old song and dance, and tired of the know-it-alls who know nothing but put on a superior attitude. You actually seem to think what you are saying is something new, but like many Christians, you are merely broadcasting your total ignorance of science, faith, history, and myths. Take this, for example, from a comment below:

    “People always try and compare other gods of worship to the God of the Bible. Jesus Christ is the only one who conquered death.”

    You’re kidding, right? Ever hear of Horus? Attis? Dionysus? And there are plenty more, born of a virgin, resurrected around springtime, and they performed “miracles” in their lives as well. And they all came before your Jesus. Most of the stories are identical, with a few name changes. Yet, you believe the one that survived with the biggest following.

    I don’t want someone to prove gods don’t exist, because I know that is scientifically impossible. You cannot prove a negative. And I just don’t care. All I want is for people to stop trying to legislate my life, my state, my country based on a book of stories.

  4. Taryn says:

    Hmmm. Atheist and agnostics became “brave” and responded. Are the authors of this blog going to be brave and reply to any of these comments?

    1. Tidbitter says:

      Hi Taryn, for us it’s not about being brave, it’s about being busy. Between the two of us we have 7 kiddos! Thanks for your patience in our responses, but take the gloves off. Neither one of us is here for a fight. We genuinely believe in the God of the bible, and His love for each one of us. As a matter of fact, if we were sitting down having a frappacino, you would probably even like us. Thanks for your comment.

      1. Deb says:

        I’m a little confused. Who has their gloves on? It doesn’t sound like anyone is angry?

      2. Taryn says:

        I was not angry, but on most blogs, if the blogger is going to take days to reply to comments, they usually have that posted somewhere. If you do have a disclaimer like that and I missed it, I apologize. I’ve seen so many Christian bloggers just ignore comments that they don’t agree with that I was beginning to think that you were going to do that.

        You seem to really want to know where atheist and agnostics are coming from, mostly so you can prove them wrong, but you do seem to be sincere. So let me help you a little so that in the future you are trying to refute the claims of people who don’t agree with you. If you are going to claim to have proof that Jesus was real(outside the Bible) it would be best to present that proof at that time. Also, keep in mind that things written 50-100 years later don’t count as proof because the author wasn’t there at the time and is most likely just relying on stories that have been passed down. Here is a better explanation of it and goes through the historical documents commonly held up as “proof” Jesus was a real god like person and explains why they aren’t actually proof.
        http://www.nobeliefs.com/exist.htm

  5. Anonymous says:

    I know God doesn’t exist so I don’t need someone to prove it.
    I don’t need God to be an illusion. I don’t really think about God a great deal.
    What turns me off Christianity is visible Christians, I rarely read a Christian blog that isn’t filled with hate, a political agenda which has nothing to do with any religion and a need to convert others not out of genuine love and concern for other people but out of a sense of superiority and pridefulness. Who would want to join such a group?

    1. Tidbitter says:

      Mmmnnn, I too have glanced through blogs where ‘Christians’ are slamming different people, or groups of people. It’s not right. Jesus came to show love, and be love to all who who would hear Him. The Bible says if you say you love Him, but you hate you’re brother, you’re a liar, and the Truth isn’t in you. That’s not my judging, that’s Jesus’.
      We’re not all like that. But, at the end of the day, it’s not a group that you join, it’s the love of God that you follow.
      We’re all works in progress, but my dad always used to say, “Don’t judge God by the people. He’s perfect, we’re not.”
      I guess none of that matters if you don’t even believe that He’s real though. Sorry I couldn’t be more helpful. I appreciate you even stopping by.

  6. Gertrude says:

    I will start by saying that I don’t really know much about evolution and that it isn’t a factor at all in whether I believe in God. (A belief in evolution would more be a factor in whether I believed in the Bible’s creation story. I don’t know if you consider belief in the creation story to be a prerequisite for believing in God? Lost of people believe in both God and evolution.)

    So anyway, I don’t think we talked much about evolution in school actually, but I’m pretty sure I have never heard that primates were our ancestors. I have heard a theory that we and primages may have a common ancestor, which is not the samething obviously.

    I haven’t read any Dawkins so I won’t comment on that part.

    To answer your questions:

    “What reason do I have in wanting God to be an illusion?”
    Actually it’s the opposite. I grew up in a Christian environment and spent a long time “wanting” God to be real. But after some time I realized that deep down I did not believe, and I couldn’t make myself believe in God. So it’s not that I *want* God to be an illusion… I just don’t believe in him.

    “Why do you want someone to prove God cannot exist?”
    I can’t say I’ve ever “wanted” someone to prove that God can’t exist. I generally view it as something that can’t be proved, though I could be wrong.I guess.

    “If you’re a brave soul, put your answer to this question down in our comment box.”
    I’m not sure about your definition of “brave”… mostly I just found the questions surprising, because I’ve never thought to myself “I want God to be an illusion” or “I want someone to prove God can’t exist.”

    1. Tidbitter says:

      Dear Gertrude, thank you for being one of the only comments that I felt wasn’t full of anger, hostility, or any attitude. Your comment was honest without making me feel bullied.
      I guess you could believe in evolution and believe in God, but I personally have a hard time with that one. The reason being, is that the Bible says that “all scripture” is the inspired words of God. Meaning, all 66 books, who have 40 or so authors, all got their total inspiration from God Himself. Since I believe that, and Genesis gives an account about how creation came about, evolution becomes the myth. Furthermore, the Bible gives how long everyone lived, a genealogy from the beginning, and in doing the research, the math ends up making the earth around 6-7 thousand years old. Unbelievable, right? When everyone knows that HomoSapiens couldn’t have made it to where we are today with that limited amount of time. So that leaves us with evolution, or creation. If God created us, we didn’t have to have that kind of time. Just a thought. I guess I’ll have to blog about it.
      Thanks again, for your honest and respect-filled comment. I hope you stop by again.

      1. Gertrude says:

        Hi Tidbitter, I thought I would just mention to you my motivation for commenting on your blog…I had not read your blog before, until someone pointed out your “5 reasons you don’t believe…” post to me. On some Christian blogs (and other types of blogs), the authors delete any comments that don’t agree with the blog author’s point of view. In your case it looks like you’re actually interested in having comments from the “other side” so I felt welcome to comment 🙂 I felt like you were kind of guessing at why atheists don’t believe, because the reasons didn’t sound true for me or for other atheists I know (though maybe they’re true for some people) so I thought you might be interested in feedback from an atheists point of view. (I obviously don’t represent all atheists. Just myself!)

        One interesting thing you mention in your comment is that you believe that all scripture is the inspired word of God. I believe it is a collection of historical documents–traditional stories, historical accounts, letters, etc., but I do not understand why it should be considered “the inspired word of God”.

        Probably the reason I am an atheist is because I say “but I don’t understand why” too much 🙂

  7. L.M. says:

    I don’t understand why you conflate belief in evolution with atheism and agnosticism. Plenty of religious people accept evolution as a theory.

    Additionally, I think you are confusing two different standards of belief. There is absolutely no expectation that people show blind, unquestioning faith in evolution in the same way people are expected to believe in Christianity. If someone believes in evolution, they are not bound with the same intellectual shackles, shaming, or lack of curiosity that comes with religious faith. Scientific ideas can be explored and questioned, they are allowed to change, they are allowed to follow the evidence. We are not forced to pretend that this is some immutable, eternal truth carved into a stone tablet at Sinai, no one is forced to worship at the altar of evolution, no one is forced to sling Darwin’s estate 10% of their income… Basically, it is okay to say “This is supported by the evidence, this can be explored more, this explains a lot” without turning it into a cult of wilful intellectual blindness.

    Also, your post really didn’t need the persecution angle. Y’know? The “waaaa-waaaa, people are so mean to those who believe in intelligent design” bit. Intelligent design is massively overrepresented; it is not the bullied little boy, it’s the bully.

    I’m not really sure why you say the explanations of the Bible are more logical. Surely the whole point is that they’re fantastical but there is an expectation that Christians believe in them anyway (faith). Your concession that the Bible stuff is “extraordinary” is totally ridiculous. What are you saying? “The thing I believe in does not make sense but that’s okay! It’s allowed to not make sense because it’s about something that doesn’t make sense!” or “The Bible stories are unbelievable and illogical but that’s fine because smoothing over that particular crack is necessary for maintaining my belief system” or “I have invented a creature that can flout logic because I say so, therefore it should be held at a far lower standard that anything else you would judge on logical grounds.”

    To your questions:

    (1) What reason do I have in wanting God to be an illusion?

    I don’t really have any reasons for wanting God to be an illusion. I know you think atheists reject God because they want to sin, sin, sin (you say sinning is fun, I think that says more about you than it does about atheists) but that does not apply in my life. The only objection a Christian could have to my lifestyle is that I don’t believe in God, I don’t think I do anything else that a Christian would find objectionable. I don’t fornicate, I don’t lie, I don’t cheat, I don’t steal, I don’t kill, and so on.

    Also, I think ‘illusion’ is the wrong word. To me, ‘illusion’ suggests that there are reasons to believe that God is real, but those reasons are somehow a trick. The word ‘illusion’ suggests that we are being given some false impression about the existence of God, like a magician showing us that a lady really has been cut in half. As far as I can tell, there is no such illusion, there is no such deception, there is nothing there. There is absolutely nothing there. There are no reasons to believe that God is real.

    (2) Why do you want someone to prove God cannot exist?

    I have no particular interest in proving that God cannot exist. I don’t particularly want it and I certainly don’t need it.

    1. Taryn says:

      L.M. you have a good point, there are plenty of Christians who believe in evolution. Evolution isn’t at odds with the Bible at all.

    2. Tidbitter says:

      L.M., wow, ok. I don’t know what to respond to first. Let me start off by saying “welcome”. You have a complete right to disagree with me, and I’m fine with that. I like you. I like when people stand firmly for what they believe in. You’re exactly the person we started this blog exactly one year ago to talk with.
      Our blog is obviously titled MisunderstoodGod because of what’s written in your response. There is no expectation of ‘blind, unquestioning faith’. As a matter of fact, the scripture actually admonishes to “study to show yourself approved”,and “always ready to have a defense”. This really comes down to truth. There are a lot of us waving our Bibles around telling you that it’s true, but not HOW it’s truth. My faith doesn’t make the Bible true, does it? It’s either true or it’s not. My faith has nothing to do with it. Just as your faith that gravity is real, has nothing in the world to do with whether or not you stay on the ground. I’ll write on that later.
      I’m not following you concerning the “shackles”, or “shaming”. I’m not sure why you’re positive that there’s any intellectual deficit whatsoever. I’m surrounded by highly educated, intellectually stimulating, and inclusive individuals who’s very purpose is to bring love and meaning to everyone they come into contact with. I’ve never in my life been even asked for 10%…I’ve never been forced to worship at any altar… I pray, but that’s simply just talking to God. And your ‘eternal truths’ written down by the finger of God, and handed to Moses? Some are still used today. It’s still illegal to murder, lie at least to a judge, and cheat on your wife at your own risk. 🙂
      There’s so much more to comment on, but it would be too long. I’m glad you came by and gave your opinion. I’m going to do my best to give actual facts and bring more to the table. None of us likes to be misunderstood. Perhaps you could do more asking of questions to find out about a person, or group of persons, before you just assume you know everything about us. Thanks for your comment.

      1. L.M. says:

        I’m surprised that you (all but) accuse me of jumping to conclusions and not knowing enough about a group. These things seem to be the entire premise of your “5 Reasons Why…” and your attempted rebuttal. None of your 5 reasons rang true. All of your points were based on assumptions, generalisations and convenient straw-men. Perhaps I did make assumptions when responding to you. To be completely fair to you, I’ll explain my assumptions:

        When I spoke about faith, shaming, and intellectual shackles, I was talking about belief in God itself. In order to believe in God (especially among those who believe in a literal reading of the Bible) all of those things seem be present in some measure. The constant whirl of circular logic that sustains the belief in the Bible requires the believer to wear blinders or have blinders imposed on them by others (often in the form of shaming).

        Think of it this way:

        How do we know the Christian God is real? Because the Bible says so. How do we know that the Bible is true? Because the Bible says so. How do we know that this is enough? Because our faith tells us so. How do we know that our faith is enough? Because our faith tells us so and/or because the Bible says so. (And so on and so on).

        To someone who is not invested in the willing the Bible to be true, this kind of logic seems ridiculous and seems to prove absolutely nothing. I do not claim that this is your personal logic cycle but I have been surrounded by enough Christians, and asked enough questions of those Christians to, know that such limited application of logic and curiosity is incredibly common. When I speak about lack of curiosity, wilful intellectual blindness, and so on… this is what I mean.

        That said, I would really like to know your thinking behind the ‘extraordinary’ comment. Why do you imagine that the (otherwise uncorroborated) pretence of the Bible (God can do extraordinary things, he’s God after all) is a meaningful argument, especially when dealing with people who reject that particular pretence?

        Also, I cannot wait for your defence of the idea that atheists do not believe in God because they like to sin. It is both ridiculous and offensive.

    3. L.M. says:

      Please excuse typos and spare words.

  8. Anon says:

    It doesn’t work that way. You can’t just grab a mirror and throw back every argument thrown at you as rebuttal. By attempting to claim that sceince needs faith on the same level that the tooth fairy does you’ve shown you don’t even begin to understand either science or faith.

    Let me guess, next you’re going to prove that christians only belive things they’re to,d by authority figures by citing some dentists and engineers on how they really didn’t do any biology at university. I’d google the list of Steves if I thought my ipad wouldn’t refresh the page while I was gone. Damned science with their Electromagnetic Theory!

    1. Tidbitter says:

      Anon, fortunately I can write about anything that comes to mind or heart.
      We disagree. To believe how you function, your DNA, your respiratory, reproductive, circulatory, and endocrine systems and the rest all perform their functions harmoniously came from an infinitesimal dot in space takes great faith. What takes more faith? In the beginning…nothing, or In the beginning…an intelligent Designer?
      Besides, I don’t even believe in the tooth fairy! 😉

  9. Taryn says:

    No one has proven god to be unreal. No one has proven him to be real either. The god of the Bible is just about as realistic as the ancient god’s of Greece. No one has proven those to be unreal either. So your god is as realistic to me as those are. The stories are amazing in the Bible, but so are the stories of ancient greek gods and even the stories in the show Doctor Who. If the only basis for believing your god is real is that no one has proven he isn’t real, well then I have a strong basis to believe in the Doctor. The god of the Bible is fairly horrific to me, so if he is real, I would rather go to hell then go be with such a horrible creature for eternity.

    God is an illusion, isn’t he? I don’t need you to prove he is an illusion, I need to you prove he isn’t. If you could prove god is real with solid, fact based proof, then I would believe, but even the Bible speaks out against that. The Bible says you need to have child like faith, if you could prove god isn’t an illusion, well there would be no reason for faith. According to the Bible faith is believing in what is hoped for and having confidence in things not seen. So for you, why do you continue to try and prove god is real? Do you think faith is not necessary? If it becomes logical to believe in god, well faith goes out the window, doesn’t it?

    The reason I want people to prove god is real is because they continually pester me to believe in him. I do not follow people around and try to convert them. In conversations I try to remain quiet on the subject unless my opinion is asked. If people would not try to convert me, then I would never ask them to prove their god(there are lots of gods, even among people who follow the Bible) is real. Instead of asking these sort of questions, why just not admit that you can’t prove god, god isn’t logical, and that it all needs to be accepted with a child like faith that uses no logic or reason? Because that is what it comes down to, isn’t it? So if you are asked by an atheist to prove god, just admit that you can’t.

    Now I’m not trying to convert you to believe like me, so I will not try to explain my beliefs because or respond to any demand by you to prove that what I believe is real. You are the one trying to convert people to believe in god, I’m not trying to convert you to not believe in god. If you don’t want people to ask for proof of god, then stop trying to get people to believe in something for which there is an overwhelming absence of proof.

    1. Tidbitter says:

      Taryn, no offense, but your mistaken. Jesus has been proven to have lived. Not just by believing scholars, but by over 10 secular historians. You mention that God has never been proven, but forget that Jesus Christ did in fact claim to be “one” with His Father. Not only that, but they’ve proven He was in fact crucified, and over 500 people saw Him alive days after His death. Anyone want proof of God? Study the historical evidence of Jesus Christ.
      People always try and compare other gods of worship to the God of the Bible. Jesus Christ is the only one who conquered death.
      I appreciate your comments.

      1. Taryn says:

        So you are saying that faith is not necessary for Christianity because there is proof? So there is no reason for believers to become like children to enter the kingdom of heaven because you can provide us with solid proof? That seems to be what you are saying, so since we have established that I do not need to take your version of god on faith, since you have solid proof of him and all of his miracles, could you please link me to that. I really would like to see this.

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